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Title: Qatar Race Thread
Description: Round 1


ppparkinson9 - March 7, 2008 06:25 PM (GMT)
So it's underway. Here are the times for FP1:

Pos Rider Team Time Laps
1. Casey Stoner Ducati Marlboro Team 1:55.870 19
2. Jorge Lorenzo Fiat Yamaha Team 1:55.924 + 0.054 22
3. Andrea Dovizioso JiR Team Scot MotoGP 1:56.221 + 0.351 15
4. Valentino Rossi Fiat Yamaha Team 1:56.269 + 0.399 22
5. Dani Pedrosa Repsol Honda Team 1:56.478 + 0.608 23
6. Randy De Puniet LCR Honda MotoGP 1:56.525 + 0.655 22
7. Colin Edwards Tech 3 Yamaha 1:56.574 + 0.704 22
8. James Toseland Tech 3 Yamaha 1:56.950 + 1.080 21
9. Nicky Hayden Repsol Honda Team 1:57.069 + 1.199 22
10. John Hopkins Kawasaki Racing Team 1:57.085 + 1.215 20
11. Marco Melandri Ducati Marlboro Team 1:57.137 + 1.267 21
12. Loris Capirossi Rizla Suzuki MotoGP 1:57.287 + 1.417 21
13. Alex De Angelis San Carlo Honda Gresini 1:57.561 + 1.691 22
14. Shinya Nakano San Carlo Honda Gresini 1:57.588 + 1.718 23
15. Chris Vermeulen Rizla Suzuki MotoGP 1:57.639 + 1.769 20
16. Toni Elias Alice Team 1:58.130 + 2.260 17
17. Anthony West Kawasaki Racing Team 1:58.912 + 3.042 21
18. Sylvain Guintoli Alice Team 1:59.006 + 3.136 16

Interesting that so many Michelin bikes fill out the top ten, apart from Rossi and Stoner of course. Whether Vale will be pleased to see his teammate over -0.300 quicker is another question, though it is only FP1.

Also some nice news from the 125's

Times

ppparkinson9 - March 8, 2008 09:45 AM (GMT)
FP2

Pos Rider Make Time
1. Casey Stoner Ducati 1:55.442
2. Jorge Lorenzo Yamaha 1:55.453 + 0.011
3. James Toseland Yamaha 1:55.812 + 0.370
4. Colin Edwards Yamaha 1:55.942 + 0.500
5. Andrea Dovizioso Honda 1:55.963 + 0.521
6. Alex de Angelis Honda 1:56.120 + 0.678
7. Randy de Puniet Honda 1:56.234 + 0.792
8. Chris Vermeulen Suzuki 1:56.279 + 0.837
9. Valentino Rossi Yamaha 1:56.395 + 0.953
10. Loris Capirossi Suzuki 1:56.922 + 1.480
11. Daniel Pedrosa Honda 1:56.962 + 1.520
12. Shinya Nakano Honda 1:57.011 + 1.569
13. Nicky Hayden Honda 1:57.045 + 1.603
14. Marco Melandri Ducati 1:57.091 + 1.649
15. Toni Elias Ducati 1:57.311 + 1.869
16. John Hopkins Kawasaki 1:57.416 + 1.974
17. Anthony West Kawasaki 1:57.934 + 2.492
18. Sylvain Guintoli Ducati 1:58.500 + 3.058

Stoner fastest again, but Jorge Lorenzo is looking very strong. In fact it is fair to say that without the power deficiit along Qatars massive main straight he would have topped the times. The same applies to Edwards and Tosleand too. They are running a spring valve engine as opposed to Rossi and Lorenzo's air valves. To get the slowest bike in a straight line into 3rd and 4th has shown what a good job Yamaha and Michelin have done.

Looking further down, Valentino Rossi just doesn't seem able to run faster times at the moment. It can only be implied that at the moment the Yamaha isn't gelling with the Bridgestones.

As for the factory Repsol Honda team, being beaten by nearly all of their customers is plainly a disaster. They have both the 07 and 08 machines in the garages.

A good day for the rookies though.


ppparkinson9 - March 8, 2008 07:46 PM (GMT)
FP3

Pos Rider Bike Time Laps
1. Casey Stoner Ducati (B) 1:55.186 20
2. Jorge Lorenzo Yamaha (M) 1:55.299 + 0.113 22
3. Valentino Rossi Yamaha (B) 1:55.598 + 0.412 23
4. Alex de Angelis Honda (B) 1:55.659 + 0.473 21
5. Colin Edwards Yamaha (M) 1:55.746 + 0.560 22
6. Andrea Dovizioso Honda (M) 1:55.788 + 0.602 20
7. Dani Pedrosa Honda (M) 1:55.902 + 0.716 25
8. Chris Vermeulen Suzuki (B) 1:56.108 + 0.922 24
9. Randy de Puniet Honda (M) 1:56.371 + 1.185 19
10. James Toseland Yamaha (M) 1:56.467 + 1.281 20
11. John Hopkins Kawasaki (B) 1:56.472 + 1.286 18
12. Loris Capirossi Suzuki (B) 1:56.516 + 1.330 24
13. Shinya Nakano Honda (B) 1:56.741 + 1.555 23
14. Toni Elias Ducati (B) 1:56.789 + 1.603 21
15. Nicky Hayden Honda (M) 1:56.971 + 1.785 24
16. Marco Melandri Ducati (B) 1:57.658 + 2.472 19
17. Anthony West Kawasaki (B) 1:57.777 + 2.591 20
18. Sylvain Guintoli Ducati (B) 1:57.800 + 2.614 22

The Bridgestones hit back at little. More importantly Rossi seems to be getting a better handle on things and Dani Pedrosa seems to have unlocked a little speed from the Honda.

Still catastrophic for Marco Melandri though.


safc_fan89 - March 8, 2008 09:25 PM (GMT)
Could Rossi's demand for Bridgestones come back to haunt him?

ppparkinson9 - March 9, 2008 09:57 AM (GMT)
The Grid-MotoGP

Pos Rider Make Time
1. Jorge Lorenzo Yamaha 1:53.927
2. James Toseland Yamaha 1:54.182 + 0.255
3. Colin Edwards Yamaha 1:54.499 + 0.572
4. Casey Stoner Ducati 1:54.733 + 0.806
5. Randy de Puniet Honda 1:54.818 + 0.891
6. Nicky Hayden Honda 1:54.880 + 0.953
7. Valentino Rossi Yamaha 1:55.133 + 1.206
8. Daniel Pedrosa Honda 1:55.170 + 1.243
9. Andrea Dovizioso Honda 1:55.185 + 1.258
10. John Hopkins Kawasaki 1:55.263 + 1.336
11. Chris Vermeulen Suzuki 1:55.540 + 1.613
12. Alex de Angelis Honda 1:55.692 + 1.765
13. Loris Capirossi Suzuki 1:56.070 + 2.143
14. Toni Elias Ducati 1:56.251 + 2.324
15. Shinya Nakano Honda 1:56.434 + 2.507
16. Marco Melandri Ducati 1:56.730 + 2.803
17. Sylvain Guintoli Ducati 1:57.198 + 3.271
18. Anthony West Kawasaki 1:57.445 + 3.518

Michelin Yamahas to the front. It's not that much of a surprise given the testing times, but it is clear that Michelin have the edge over Bridgestone in qualifying at least. Toseland's time was partially assisted by a canny decision by his engineer to send him out on qualifying tyres halfway through the session before the temperature starting dropping (this took place at nearly midnight local time). Lorenzo's pole was undoubtedly helped by the pneumatic engine he has which Edwards and Toseland are yet to recieve. Only one Ducati doing the business and you can guess who that is. It must be a real concern for Ducati that their other bikes are so slow.

Good showing from De Puniet carrying across his testing form, Nicky Hayden did his old trick of battering the bike round into a fast qualifying lap.

Valentino Rossi was simply unable to get any closer to his teammates.

But of course you don't get any points for qualifying.

ppparkinson9 - March 9, 2008 10:00 AM (GMT)
250GP Grid

Pos Rider Make Time
1. Alex Debon Aprilia 1:59.470
2. Hector Barbera Aprilia 1:59.629 + 0.159
3. Alvaro Bautista Aprilia 1:59.694 + 0.224
4. Mika Kallio KTM 1:59.814 + 0.344
5. Mattia Pasini Aprilia 1:59.863 + 0.393
6. Marco Simoncelli Gilera 1:59.911 + 0.441
7. Thomas Luthi Aprilia 2:00.108 + 0.638
8. Yuki Takahashi Honda 2:00.326 + 0.856
9. Aleix Espargaro Aprilia 2:00.365 + 0.895
10. R.Locatelli Gilera 2:00.403 + 0.933
11. Karel Abraham Aprilia 2:00.517 + 1.047
12. Hiroshi Aoyama KTM 2:00.609 + 1.139
13. Fabrizio Lai Gilera 2:00.854 + 1.384
14. Julian Simon KTM 2:00.975 + 1.505
15. Hector Faubel Aprilia 2:00.998 + 1.528
16. Lukas Pesek Aprilia 2:01.000 + 1.530
17. Alex Baldolini Aprilia 2:01.149 + 1.679
18. Manuel Poggiali Gilera 2:01.391 + 1.921
19. R.Wilairot Honda 2:01.487 + 2.017
20. Eugene Laverty Aprilia 2:02.482 + 3.012
21. Imre Toth Aprilia 2:03.538 + 4.068
22. Manuel Hernandez Aprilia 2:03.703 + 4.233
23. D.T.Pradita Yamaha 2:05.343 + 5.873

Didn't stay up for this, but it's about what I expected.

ppparkinson9 - March 9, 2008 10:03 AM (GMT)
125GP Grid

Pos Rider Bike Time
1. Bradley Smith Aprilia 2:05.242
2. Gabor Talmacsi Aprilia 2:05.308 + 0.066
3. Mike Di Meglio Derbi 2:05.351 + 0.109
4. Scott Redding Aprilia 2:05.545 + 0.303
5. Daniel Webb Aprilia 2:05.593 + 0.351
6. Raffaele De Rosa KTM 2:05.618 + 0.376
7. Nicolas Terol Aprilia 2:05.833 + 0.591
8. Sergio Gadea Aprilia 2:05.953 + 0.711
9. Joan Olive Derbi 2:06.074 + 0.832
10. Simone Corsi Aprilia 2:06.096 + 0.854
11. Esteve Rabat KTM 2:06.132 + 0.890
12. Stefano Bianco Aprilia 2:06.205 + 0.963
13. Sandro Cortese Aprilia 2:06.218 + 0.976
14. Steve Bonsey Aprilia 2:06.329 + 1.087
15. Stefan Bradl Aprilia 2:06.347 + 1.105
16. Pablo Nieto KTM 2:06.380 + 1.138
17. Andrea Iannone Aprilia 2:06.388 + 1.146
18. Pol Espargaro Derbi 2:06.402 + 1.160
19. Efren Vazquez Aprilia 2:06.477 + 1.235
20. D.Agerter Derbi 2:06.585 + 1.343
21. Tomoyoshi Koyama KTM 2:06.702 + 1.460
22. Michael Ranseder Aprilia 2:06.787 + 1.545
23. Takaaki Nakagami Aprilia 2:07.016 + 1.774
24. Lorenzo Zanetti KTM 2:07.338 + 2.096
25. R.Krummenacher KTM 2:07.603 + 2.361
26. Pere Tutusaus Aprilia 2:07.605 + 2.363
27. Robin Lasser Aprilia 2:08.000 + 2.758
29. H.van den Berg Aprilia 2:08.502 + 3.260
31. Robert Muresan Aprilia 2:09.257 + 4.015
32. Dino Lombardi Aprilia 2:09.632 + 4.390
33. R.Lacalendola Aprilia 2:09.827 + 4.585
34. Louis Rossi Honda 2:10.153 + 4.911

Excuse me while I consider this grid.

<dance> <dance> <dance> <dance> <clap> <clap> <clap> <yahoo> <yahoo> <yahoo> <yahoo> <yahoo> <yahoo>

Thank you.

everythingoes - March 10, 2008 06:30 AM (GMT)
MotoGP Results -
Pos Rider Make Time
1. Casey Stoner Ducati 42:36.587
2. Jorge Lorenzo Yamaha + 5.323
3. Daniel Pedrosa Honda + 10.600
4. Andrea Dovizioso Honda + 13.288
5. Valentino Rossi Yamaha + 13.305
6. James Toseland Yamaha + 14.040
7. Colin Edwards Yamaha + 15.150
8. Loris Capirossi Suzuki + 32.505
9. Randy de Puniet Honda + 33.003
10. Nicky Hayden Honda + 38.354
11. Marco Melandri Ducati + 44.284
12. John Hopkins Kawasaki + 49.857
13. Shinya Nakano Honda + 49.871
14. Toni Elias Ducati + 58.532
15. Sylvain Guintoli Ducati + 58.930
16. Anthony West Kawasaki +1:05.643
17. Chris Vermeulen Suzuki + 1 Lap

Not classified:

Rider Make On lap
Alex de Angelis Honda 16

Fastest lap: Stoner, 1:55.153 on lap 14

everythingoes - March 10, 2008 06:35 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (safc_fan89 @ Mar 9 2008, 02:55 AM)
Could Rossi's demand for Bridgestones come back to haunt him?

<think> In Qatar it did, but it may not be the case in other circuits. Its too early to tell.
Rossi has said that the problem is with the setup of his bike and that the team has to forget their Michelin experience and learn how to set up his bike for the B'stones :s

u4coffee - March 10, 2008 11:37 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (everythingoes @ Mar 10 2008, 06:35 AM)
QUOTE (safc_fan89 @ Mar 9 2008, 02:55 AM)
Could Rossi's demand for Bridgestones come back to haunt him?

<think> In Qatar it did, but it may not be the case in other circuits. Its too early to tell.
Rossi has said that the problem is with the setup of his bike and that the team has to forget their Michelin experience and learn how to set up his bike for the B'stones :s

TBH I think he was too quick to jump to the B/Stones. It looks like Michelin have improved over last year.

I guess we'll have to wait and see, but how long will it take to get used to setting up for Bridgestones?

u4coffee - March 10, 2008 11:39 AM (GMT)
What did you think of the night race? I switched on 1/2 way through the 125's and it was only when I saw the spot lights I remembered. It looked amazing from the air though :)

Norbert - March 10, 2008 11:56 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (u4coffee @ Mar 10 2008, 11:37 AM)
I guess we'll have to wait and see, but how long will it take to get used to setting up for Bridgestones?

Erm, since every track will be a little different, probably about a year....

<doh> on that decision, I rekcon.

u4coffee - March 10, 2008 11:58 AM (GMT)
QUOTE (Norbert @ Mar 10 2008, 11:56 AM)
QUOTE (u4coffee @ Mar 10 2008, 11:37 AM)
I guess we'll have to wait and see, but how long will it take to get used to setting up for Bridgestones?

Erm, since every track will be a little different, probably about a year....

<doh> on that decision, I rekcon.

So... He's screwed then?

everythingoes - March 10, 2008 12:00 PM (GMT)
THIS is what Rossi has to say after yesterdays race. You decide whether or not he's screwed :s

everythingoes - March 10, 2008 12:05 PM (GMT)
While watching the race last night, (it finished past 2am my time <doh>) I was contemplating that if Rossi has another poor season, would he lose motivation to continue and leave MotoGP?
It happened with MS, although he didn't have a poor last season. I figured that guys like that, who have won so much and are so used to winning, might find it difficult to keep racing if they are suddenly not winning anymore. :s

ppparkinson9 - March 10, 2008 05:37 PM (GMT)
With Rossi it can only be judged at the end of the season whether he made the right choice to switch. He wouldn't have won even if he was on the Michelins. I think as to him leaving he would if he got pasted like last year. If he took Stoner close that would given him the motivation to try again.

While the MotoGP race was not a classic it was the best set of rookie performances for a long time. Jorge Lorenzo was superb, and the soap opera with him and Pedrosa has taken another dimension. Pedrosa dug out an important result though considering the state he's in.

Dovizioso made a dream start too, imagine beating Rossi first time out. As a Brit though I am really ecstatic about James Toseland. 6th might not seem a big deal, but compared to our previous efforts in the last few years he looked like he belonged in MotoGP and that's no mean feat.


Petra Lead - March 10, 2008 07:47 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (ppparkinson9 @ Mar 10 2008, 05:37 PM)
As a Brit though I am really ecstatic about James Toseland. 6th might not seem a big deal, but compared to our previous efforts in the last few years he looked like he belonged in MotoGP and that's no mean feat.

Indeed, especially as he has last year's engine and was down on power compared the guys around him. Apparently there will be at least one more race before he gets the latest specification engine then perhaps we'll see him really fly.

With regard to the good performances by the rookies I'd guess that at least some of it has to do with the bikes now being big four strokes and therefore more similar to WSB machinery than before back in the "good old days" of savage, peaky 500cc two strokes. The engine capacity has been reduced too so I'm guessing these bikes are easier to ride even than the bikes of two years ago let alone my beloved 2 strokes.

I lament their passing. I know that the teams agreed that developing the two stroke engine was not relevant to their road-going machinery but that's not much of an excuse - I would have opened the old wallet just as soon as any of the big three (sorry Kawasaki) released a 500cc (or bigger, yeeha!) stroker. I once heard that Honda were going to release one and I was at my dealers trying to place a pre-order within the week.

Which shows two things; i) that I am easily parted from my money, and ii) there was market for sporty two strokes.

D'oh, sorry for the meandering off-topic. Once I get on my hobby horse ......

Anyway back to the race; not a classic but still entertaining and nice to see that the rookies seem to have strengthened the field.

ppparkinson9 - March 10, 2008 08:30 PM (GMT)
Toseland's performance aside these bikes are actually more favourable to 250cc riders, with their emphasis on corner speed. That's almost certainly why Lorenzo and Dovizioso were so strong.

It's the electronics more than anything that is making these bikes rookie friendly.

I always thought that when the capacity dropped to 800cc the two strokes would be competitive and the manufactuers probably thought this too, which is why the two strokes have been banned completely.

As for buying one to ride:

Going cheap!

These are the customer machines Honda made available. I'm sure if you're enterprising you could convert it to road legal.


Petra Lead - March 10, 2008 10:52 PM (GMT)
QUOTE (ppparkinson9 @ Mar 10 2008, 08:30 PM)
Toseland's performance aside these bikes are actually more favourable to 250cc riders, with their emphasis on corner speed. That's almost certainly why Lorenzo and Dovizioso were so strong.

It's the electronics more than anything that is making these bikes rookie friendly.

I always thought that when the capacity dropped to 800cc the two strokes would be competitive and the manufactuers probably thought this too, which is why the two strokes have been banned completely.

As for buying one to ride:

Going cheap!

These are the customer machines Honda made available. I'm sure if you're enterprising you could convert it to road legal.

All good points relating to the rookie-friendliness.

As to that advert, it had me drooling, but how long would an engine last? I guess if you can afford to buy one of the things you can afford to run it. Sadly I can't.

I did once talk to an engineer friend of mine about the idea of making a 500cc V4 motor from a pair of RGV250 V2 engines. But he told me not to be so stupid. He almost exploded when I mentioned making the V6 750 version.

Unless I want an old RG500 Gamma or RD500LC I guess I'll never own a 500cc stroker, sadly those bikes are a bit too old these days.

I too think that a 550cc strokers would be more than competitive against 800cc four strokes, probably with more power and better handling.

I believed it was ultimately emissions legislation for road going bikes that killed off the large capacity 2 stroke but then I also heard tell that fuel injection would have been able to address that issue by simply not squirting in fuel while the ports were still open. Whatever the reason they are lost and gone forever.



ppparkinson9 - March 11, 2008 05:44 PM (GMT)
It's a racing machine so I guess it would need frequent rebuilds. I imagine it could be detuned, but only so far, two strokes being peaky and all.

Apriia bored their 250cc engine out to 500cc to make their V-Twin GP bike. It wasn't half bad either, though the move to unleaded killed off it's competiveness.




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