Will the independent panel do justice and give Leeds United their points back

Just months after Southern **** suckers and all around FA bum buddies West Ham got away scott free with playing TWO ILLEGAL players, one of whom was instrumental in keeping in them up, Northern Scum Leeds Untied were given a 15 point deduction for an ALLEGED breach of Football League administration rules, i say alleged because the football league have always REFUSED to give a valid reason to the public, what are they trying to hide?

Ken Bates and his army have put together a huge pile of documentation with massive details claiming that Leeds did not break any rules

If Leeds were to lose it was almost certainly signal the end for teams like Luton Town and Bournemouth as the Football League would have to uphold their penalty to all teams

i must stress that Leeds were not deducted 15 points for going into administration but for breaching administration rules, but what rule?

We know it's something to do with the CVA but Luton and Bournemouth have the same CVA to go through so is the football league just making up rules as it goes along? Why hasn't the FA stepped in? Are they punishing Leeds for their incompetence over the shocking handling of the West Ham shambles?

Like Bates has said before, he requested a public hearing but the FL refused, what are they hiding?

Hopefully justice will be done and League 1 will no more be false, everyone can move on and we can get on with playing football rather then having to worry about which (northern) club will be bit next

A positive outcome for Leeds United would be an overall victory for the game...

It's because the 15 point penalty meant nothing to Leeds last season as they were already relegated.

Whilst Leeds were unlucky to have the rule basically invented just for them, personally as a Derby fan I want to see them suffer :P

that's complete rubbish

Leeds got 10 points deducted last season, TOTALLY irrelevent of where they finished or was at the time

This 15 point penalty was for a "breach of administration rules in the CVA" Creditors Voluntary Agreement

NOT for actually going into administration! that's a fact that a few people have found it hard to get their heads round

but what this "breach" was has never been revealed and in the end all creditors, even the IR were appeased, check the facts please

the first line of your post is totally wrong, you need to read up the fact on this case mate, you are well off the mark

Unfortunately there is very little the FA can do, it all comes down to how you pay your creditors. The current rules state that you must pay all football cerditors 100%, but you can still pay limited amounts to non football creditors - for example bates' offer of 1 penny in every pound.

Now to the massive problem, usually a football clubs biggest creditor is HMRC and paying the full amount to HMRC would usually result in massive problems for an already financially struggling club. HMRC see that footballing creditors are getting 100p in the pound and want it too. so refuse to allow a creditors agreement where they get less even if it is all the clubs can pay. Thus the club cannot honour the CVA and therefore cannot come out of administration without breaking FL rules.

Unfortunately a club cannot progress and start making money again until they come out of administration. So when leeds ad bates came out of administration they did not fully satisfy the CVA and thus the FA imposed sanctions (rightly or wrongly) in the form of a points deduction.


Now there are a variety of things that will come from this, either HMRC will back down and not demand 100%, the FL will back down and allow teams to pay less than 100% to football creditors (neither particularly likely), the rules will be change so that if you cant honour your CVA you wont get a points deduction (maybe but i doubt it), or nothing will change and clubs will continue to come out of administration and take the 15 point penalty hoping they can do well enough in the league to get over the hurdle it creates (like leeds to their credit have done).

Calm down...

Anyway I'm happy to see Leeds crash and burn. Enjoy league 1 with Forest <devil>

don't you mean the Championship with Derby after their embarrasing and abysmal attempt at premier league football

<roflmao> <roflmao>

Beckford turned down Derby because he'd rather stay at Leeds

says an awful lot! <roflmao>

leeds cheated, got caught and were punished. Ken should take it like a big boy and get on with investing in the club and try to get it back into the big time.. <yikes>

Just did the same as any other club mate, but the Football League didn’t like it because it’s Leeds United

Like Leeds have said, FL don’t want to go public so what are they hiding?

Check the facts again


<doh>

Rather be an embarassment in the Premiership than an embarrassment in League 1. We got £60m out of it plus rich American owners. Can you remember what it's like to actually be solvent? <roflmao>

Still, I here places like Carlisle are nice this time of year.

Oh wait... they're gonna be a league above you next year <roflmao>

But you have League 1 players turning you down?! Lol!

Nah, better to be in embarrassment in League 1, (although effectively 2nd in the league is embarrsing? Idiot)

Didn't your manager leave you to be something like 4th in charge at Newcastle? Simply being in League 1 is embarrassing. I guess you've gotten used to it now... which is good 'cause you will still be there next year <devil>

Yawn! Well, better to have won something once then never to have won anything at all!!

At least I seen my team lift the league title

Something which you will never see in your entire life!

"WON THE LEAGUE IN 92
STUFFED ARSENAL AND MAN U
THEY GOT SMASHED BY THE SERVICE CREW
LEEDS SERVICE CREW!"

it will do for me!



<roflmao> <roflmao> <roflmao>

<roflmao>

Keep looking to the past, if it helps you forget about the present!

To say we haven't won anything at all isn't true. We won the League back in '72 and '75 against dirty dirty Leeds which is where the rivalry comes from.

The only thing you can win these days is the Johnstone's paint trophy <roflmao>

well, it's still more than you will win! <roflmao> <roflmao>

at least i actually saw my team life the cup rather then having to listen to Grandad's stories of the glory days!

<roflmao> <roflmao> <roflmao>

link to bbc

wise words from the great man.

..and whoever cared what Donny thought?!

Leeds might be in League 1 but they still got loads more column inches than Derby, never mind Donny!

oh, and whatever happened to that bloke called Martin Ling! lol!

"WE ARE THE BOYS IN WHITE
BEAT MILLWALL IN A FIGHT
AND CRUSHED THE DERBY SHITE
THE BOYS IN WHITE"

And in a few years, you'll be the grandad telling your grandchildren about that league win 'cause there won't be anything more recent to celebrate <roflmao>

alot more recent that what you have though! lol!

<roflmao> <roflmao>

i remeber watching the money programme which was on how football is being or not being run from a business point of view.

On the programme was a accountant from a top firm (Deloitte & Touche i think) and he sum up was that he was in a meeting with a manager and a owner of a club and were discussing what facilities could be built that could generate money for the club and the cost were relative low to buying a new player and plus it was a guarented income, they would dither and make excuses like theres not enough money in this years budget, or we will see at the end of the season to see where we finish in the table and cups, yet when the secretary phoned through that a certain player was available, miracously the funds appeared.

In the grand scheme of things the two facilities that the accountant suggested would have cost the club £400,000 and would be built within 6-7 months, whereas the player cost in excess of of £3.5M.

Most clubs are run by people who think more with their hearts then theirs minds.

The sad fact is that in this day and age football is not a sport but a business.

after Leeds cleared their debts and got rid of the wage leaches (Healy, Cresswell etc) they are one of the few Football League clubs to be in the black

West Brom are operating with huge debts, it's a make or break season for them

Or people who dont car about the long term future of the club, just making themselves some quick cash, or getting glory and recognition!

something which is all too common nowadays

i worry for clubs like yours mate, and that's not being nasty or anything, that's just a worry i have

take any club with a bit of history, and some land going on the cheap and someone looking to make quick profits will come in and make a mess of things. its happened to us 3 time in ten years and has completely ruined the club and left it riddled with debts.

hopefully these new guys (2020) are as good as they and the fans supporters groups say tehy are and luton can start building for the future.

the reason you get more column inches than donny (remember column inches don't matter on the pitch) is because you are a riches to rags story and that makes a good read.

I was always under the impression that going into adminstration was an immediate 15 point penalty myself, unlike the penalty for playing illegal players, which is up to the FA's discretion. And they chose to mete out the biggest fine in English football history, which eclipsed the next nearest by something like twice over. I would suspect that they'd never have fined Leeds because at a payback rate of 50p a week, they'd never pay off the interest, let alone the fine, however deducting points from a team who are going down for certain has about as much effect on them as taking away a fry-up away from an anorexic.

Norbert

the penalty for entering administration is 10 points, leeds were deducted this LAST season

there were then deducted a FURTHER 15 points this season

in effect, a 25 point penalty

the 15 points thing is just something the FA/FL made up

we all know the clear bias that exists in the football authorities, only an idiot would deny it

but for the good of the game, this penalty must be overturned

this is Donny who have 10mil of debt thanks to the new stadium!

lol!

thanks to the administration, Leeds have 0 debt <roflmao>

I'm an anorexic can i have a fry-up <dinner> <roflmao>

re-read the last part of your post, then think about it... then say sorry for getting your facts totally wrong.. <doh>

And no sympathy.

hmmm, i could have worded it better, but still you ought just to stick to saving Silvestone

and Safcfan, we are not after sympathy, we want justice

why the hell would Leeds United be after sympathy, we have the most feared firm in football, we know everyone hates us

we love to be hated and we love to see these other manages panicking that justice might provail and the league will be evened up and their tin-pot club will suffer because of it

but this is about the law and an off field unfair incident

if Leeds lose, the real losers are going to be teams like Bournemouth and Luton because then if they can't pay off the non football creditors 100% they face the same extra 15 point penalty because the FL will HAVE to uphold it for ALL teams, not just Leeds

and unlike Leeds, those teams just do not have the power and fan base to bounce back

we are Leeds and we will never EVER shut up

thank you, apology accepted. ;)

Just because you don't want leeds wupping your arse next year when you are languishing at the bottom of the championship. <roflmao>

Leeds wupping our arse? Lol, last time we played them we were using the aweful squad we are using in the Premiership now and it was a cakewalk.

good for you!

Stradlin, I know you're not after sympathy, I was just passing comment. I don't know the full ins and outs of what happened, but clubs that end up with such large debts have no-one to blame but themselves. Had we gone into administration after those disastrous Premiership seasons, I doubt we'd have had any sympathy.

Probably explains at least some of the negative press that Leeds have received.

This is the best place to say this, rather than starting a new thread...

Do you think that Jewell has to be at least partly to blame for this season's mess? I think if you'd kept Billy Davies, you would have at least had a few more points. None of Jewell's signings have made any real impact.

It seems odd to me that the press haven't picked up on it. When we went down in 02-03, the press made an awful lot of the fact that McCathy had lost his first 8 or so games with us. Even though when he took over we were just about down!

just to clarify norbert. the penalty under scrutiny is not the 10 point deduction for going IN to administration which leeds accepted (eventoh they took it in a slightly less than sporting manner), it is a 15 point deduction for LEAVING administration without a FL ratified CVA.

Now depending on who you talk to the CVA is either a guideline or a rule - i dont know enough about it to say which it is. if it is a rule then the penalty should stand, if it is a guideline then the penalty is questionable.


I repet my point from earlyer that the FL demand that 100% of all footballing debts are paid, because of this HMRC also wants 100% of its debt paid (why should they have to accept less than others), the problem arrises when HMRC are the biggest debt the club owes and cannot afford to pay 100% of the debt. Then the club cannot reach a CVA and has to leave administration fearing the wrath of the FL.




Yes safc the club is in debt but for many clubs the debt is due to poor management at board room level, usually when a club goes into administration it is sold saddling new owners and the lowly staff to deal with the consequences. WHen the financial crooks who got the club in that position in the first place walk away scot free, is that fair.
I know the leeds situation is different cos the guy who took them into admin also took them out which is slightly questionable but for the majority of clubs the people who suffer are not the ones who caused the problems.

Leeds should lose all there points, every season, for ever.

STUART McCALL'S BRADFORD ARMY!!!

I'm talking about the actual club.

With our debts, Bob Murray was the problem, as he gave Peter Reid 16.5 million to spend on new players, and then sacked him a month later! A few months later it emerged we were £25 million in debt. No doubt players were being given hefty signing-on fees as well. I think if Quinn and his consortium hadn't taken over, we would be in League One now...