So far, Pay Drivers have been voted into Room 101 with a huge majority. For this week's topic I have chosen something that has come into F1 within the last 10 years - Herman Tilke circuits. Once again the poll will be open until Thursday and the final result will be revealed next Monday.

Argument For:

Since 1999, there has been 6 Herman Tilke-designed circuits that have held a Formula One race - Malaysia, Bahrain, China, Turkey, and the redeveloped Hockenheim and Fuji. They have provided great facilities for both teams and spectators alike, with excellent pit and paddock facilities and huge grandstands giving excellent views. They have also provided great races, such as Turkey in 2005 and China in 2006. And with both Valencia and Singapore making their debut next year F1 will continue to have better and better facilities

Argument Against:

The introduction of these circuits has been at the expense of the traditional European races, such as Portugal and Austria who have been unable to gain a space on the calendar. They also make the traditional circuits, such as Silverstone and Monza, look second-rate and they are therefore under constant criticism from those high up in the FIA. Any many argue that they lack character, with no great corners and very little changes in elevation giving a boring track and tedius races.

"They also make the traditional circuits, such as Silverstone and Monza, look second-rate and they are therefore under constant criticism from those high up in the FIA."

That's a sign that the others have to improve instead of being stuck in the dark ages. Not Tilke's fault. Silverstone has promised improvements for many years and done nothing. That is why Bernie always criticises them. Because they seem to think he will keep it on the calendar. Lets face it, if nothing is done, Silverstone will be off the calendar. Their choice.

I voted no because Malaysia and Turkey are 2 of my favourite tracks, Bahrain offers something different and unique (at the moment at least), the Valencia track looks very interesting, as does Abu Dhabi, which I can't wait to see. China is a bit of a dud, the new Hockenheim is as bland as the old one, and the new Nurburgring section spoils the track. But he gets too much flak I think. Yes his tracks can be predictable but everyone cries out for overtaking and his tracks allow it. As he told F1 Racing, he does what he is told. If he designed a new Suzuka, for example, there would just be a procession, and people would moan. And he has to include large runoff areas wherever possible, to meet safety requirements. Not his fault. Lay off him!

I'm torn on this.

Shanghai and Turkey rule!

Malaysia and new Hockenheim are rubbish!

I'd keep Tilke, imo Malaysia and China are the worst circuits, but Bahrain, Turkey and Hockenheim are pretty good. Tilke's circuits generally produce better races in more modern F1, than the older circuits.

What's wrong with Malaysia? :P

I'd put Monza, the Hungaroring and Silverstone into Room 101 before any Tilke-designed circuits. The main issues with Tilke's circuits are the complete lack of elevation changes and the miles of concrete run-off. But, as has already been said, these are not decisions Tilke himself makes - he can only work with what he is given. So my vote is "No."

Still haven't forgiven him for ruining Hockenheim, though <fu>

Its dull!!

Only excitement is when it rains <grrr>

Yes yes yes yes yes!!!

Tilke circuits are all the same, they're boring, there's no overtaking opportunities, they're flat as a pancake and nearly all include a long straight into a ridiculously tight corner some where.

Now, Herr Tilke should really look at the great tracks for inspiration. Look at spa and the wonderfull Eau Rouge-Radillion sequence. What about 180R at Suzuka? Bridge at Silverstone?

Of course, nothing comes close to the majesty of the Nurburgring Nordschliefe. sheer talent testing amazingness. or the flat out runs down the Mulsanne straight at Le Mans (ok, not an F1 Circuit, but they insist on only racing on mickey mouse kart tracks apparently).

Having said all that. there really is no excuse for the Hungboraring.

Lets see, the best races I've seen this year in F1.

France, Nurburgring, USA (not that bad), Canada. I can gaurentee that Spa will be brilliant.

Worst F1 Races I've seen this year.
Malasya, Monaco, Bahrain. Overtaking, what's that?

Admittedly, I havent' really seen many F1 races this year, but if F1 would care to re-visit Donington park, where do I sign?

The reason all Tilke circuits include a "tight corner/long straight/tight corner" sequence is because that's the only way, in the modern climate of F1, that you stand a cat in hell's chance of actually getting the cars to overtake. For me the final section at Istanbul ruins the circuit, but it's a necessary evil to give the cars an opportunity to pass into Turn 1. To be honest, I think the overtaking problems are more to do with the cars than the circuits. When was the last time you saw an F1 car overtaking somebody into Eau Rouge, or Bridge? They're very impressive corners to behold, that's true, but they don't provide overtaking opportunities either.

It's definitely the cars, but the easier option rather than changing the cars is to alter the circuits. The new tracks that have something about them I have no problem with (Turkey, Malaysia and Bahrain) but I hate what has been done to the Nurburgring, and China is just a dreadful track.

No offence, but that's rubbish. Recent races at Turkey, China and Bahrain have been a lot better than at tracks like Silverstone and Monza. Malaysia is an older new circuit, the races *were* decent there, but it's not designed in a way to encourage overtaking.

130R at Suzuka is a nothing corner now, as is Eau Rouge. They are easy in an F1 car, and Bridge requires no extra effort at all. They are spectacular I guess, but you can't follow the car ahead through them so including such corners in new tracks is daft. Turn 8 at Istanbul is probably one of the hardest corners in F1 now.

The Chinese circuit is based on one of the characters in the Chinese language, so Tilke didn't really have much artistic licence with that one! As I have said before, the biggest problem with the Tilke circuits is the lack of elevation changes and the huge areas of run-off - neither of which can be attributed to Tilke himself. One thing Tilke is good at is designing overtaking opportunities, even if that means the corners themselves aren't particularly inspiring (although there are a few gems - the double-apex section at Sepang and Turn 8 at Istanbul must be quite fun to drive).

I agree on the runoff area bit, but if you look on a wider scale, this is happening at a lot of tracks now. Spa for example.

Surely a better character could have been used! The track just looks like corners randomly chucked together, and it doesn't flow well at all.

Er, that's 'cos you've got to be suicidal to try and overtake there?

<thumbsup>

I don't have a problem with runoff areas per se - obviously they are important for safety reasons, even if it is a bit of a disservice to the fans who pay lots of money for a ticket and then find that they can't even see the cars without hiring out an observatory for the weekend....

My major problem with the runoff areas is that they are paved with more or less the same stuff the track is paved with, so drivers can push really hard into a corner with the knowledge that if they get it wrong, they can just run a bit wide and no harm is done. The edges of the track should be designed so that leaving the circuit incurs a hefty time deficit, or worse (look at the last corner at Melbourne before this season - a mistake there was potentially race-ending, but it wasn't particularly dangerous: still didn't stop the organisers from reprofiling the corner with grasscrete). Otherwise what's the point of having the track as narrow as it is - you might as well just extend it.

Circuits should not be built to suit the cars
Cars should be built to suit the circuits.

Anyway, the same cars which produced an absolute borefest at Turkey this weekend also managed a fairly decent race at several, non Tilke, circuits earlier in the year. I just hope that they stop this madman from ruining Silverstone.

*The STIG goes off to beat Herr Tilke over the head with his own spade.

I'm sure I put this in another topic, but there have been 2 good races this year and 1 of those was due purely with the weather. Barcelona, France and Silverstone are examples of 3 non-Tilke tracks that produce dire races. Bahrain is one of the best tracks for overtaking.

i voted No. However i think it's a bit of a cop out or excuse that i'm only designing what i'm told to design.

No as well.

Turkey and Bahrian have evlavation changes.

Turkey; first corner downhill to the long left uphill, over the crest into the fast left and then downhill into the super slow right. A bit like an elongated corkscrew.

The tarmac run-offs are good, I tihink. Without those many cars would end up beached in a gravel trap unable to return.

Tike has definately got better at track design. Fuji is very nice - especially the final section with all those deceptive fast/slow corners.

The only criticism is that the tracks seem to lack that "magic". The tracks are functional, efficient and clinical, but all very similar.